Decentral Lens: Bull Market FOMO | ETFs | Solana BONK | BTC Supply | $Portal

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Decentralized On, where lifelong friends Chicago and Disco navigate the ever-evolving crypto landscape With genuine curiosity and a commitment to nuance. As our North Star, we offer clear-eyed exploration. Our goal to empower listeners with the tools and insights needed to flourish in this decentralized age.

Speaker 2: 0:22

What's up everybody. We got another great show this week. So much news happening. I am Chicago and on my right is Disco.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Hello everybody, happy to be here, as always.

Speaker 2: 0:36

So, yeah, this is an interesting week news wise, I would say the last couple weeks have had big stories, but there's just, I feel like, with everybody just so ramped up with the bull market, there's a lot of people are coming out of the woodworks like projects you haven't heard of in years, all of a sudden, or vying for attention with pretty big followers. And you know, I think a big part of this show is just to figure out what deserves our attention and what deserves our headspace with with so much going on like a whiff of a bull and like everybody's out, you know, with their blankets and picnic baskets and all that stuff a picnic analogy, if you will, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:24

Of course I like to have a little cold fried chicken if I would.

Speaker 1: 1:28

But it's like a little Revenia Fest. But you know it's interesting because I think you're, you're, you're touching on something that I've been, we've been kind of, you know, thinking about. It's like what's the filter and what gets the headlines and why are they getting the headlines? And what rocked it some of these projects crawl out of and is it like the last gasp, like hey, I can grab something now, or have they just been quietly building it and you know? And then you get these newcomers. You know things that weren't even on your radar. You know from a bonk to a. You know whatever it may be.

Speaker 1: 2:02

And then you look and you're like, wait, there's legitimate amounts of inflow into some of these things. So it's, it's a fascinating, massive inflow, right. And you're like how and you know some of the stuff. You know I don't probably get into some of these topics a little bit, but some it's like you then have to kind of pull back from your feet and stuff and be like what does this project actually do? You know like, what's it actually? What's the core of what they're trying to do? And it's amazing that you can get so much input in. You know all these, you know mentions and this or that and not even really understand what it's about. So it's a lot to navigate and that's why we're here and I always enjoy having some time to just kind of talk things out with you and kind of process it instead of just doing, you know, some results inside my own head trying to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Yeah, because when we cover the news, like disco and I'll talk earlier in the week and the FOMO kind of got us both down at first, like everybody like, because all these things, you know, like I said, came out of the woodworks and just a lot of them, you know, once we cut through the clutter we're like that's not even a story. Not a story. This feels like just a lot of people pumping this and that, and then we finally calmed down and settled on stories that that we think are important. So if we don't cover it, it probably means that it's not important. But, you know, for new folks coming in or people who you know have been in crypto but haven't deep dove, dove and well played sir New word Even dive.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Yeah, dive it did you know we're? We're here to kind of sift through and figure out what's important and, and you know, look for the signal amidst all the noise. So I would say.

Speaker 1: 3:45

I would say like the FOMO is real and we have to try to manage that one way or the other, because you really are. At least I'll be vulnerable and up front, like sometimes I feel like why didn't the bus stop at my house on one of these? I would have loved to have been involved with you.

Speaker 1: 4:02

Know, bonk you know, and you see it just everywhere and it's like did I miss it? So maybe actually missing it is the root of the formal. I don't know what it is, but there's a lot of ways to look at it, yeah, so let's start there.

Speaker 2: 4:15

It's a perfect segue. So the headline is basically on Solana, the bonk token is basically your Shiba Inu of ETH or the original OG daddy of of dog coins, doge and bonk just has gone. Am I really going to say this Bonk has gone, bonkers and it's just. It's gone up hundreds and hundreds of percent. You know, and I guess every chain that's getting attention has to have a cute dog on the coin, but this is no exception. So bonked it really well, and then on the board.

Speaker 1: 4:55

Yeah, it was actually just to do the numbers. I see that it was up 762% in the last 30 days, so people are making 762% upside. You know if you were early on bonk and it's just, it's remarkable.

Speaker 2: 5:09

Yeah, and it makes you wonder. You know, I've been in this space a long time and you just wonder how coordinated the rings are of influencers who drive this stuff. Like, in hindsight, the first dog token on the Solana chain. I guess if you had to make a bet, if Solana was pumping that it would have a run. Now, whether it has a prolonged run. I mean, I think Dogecoin is still the 10th biggest coin by market cap, which to me is just insanity. I mean, but the end there's. To me there's no utility, there's nothing there. But you know, people buy the memes the Peppy coin, dogecoin and now bonk.

Speaker 2: 5:56

And on Bitcoin, you know their first big mover on the BRC 20 tokens was the Ortecoin, and I know a lot of folks in the Bitcoin Ordinal space who have made a bloody fortune in this and I definitely salute them.

Speaker 2: 6:10

I just, you know something inscribed on a sat that represents another layer of money. It was. It was tough for me to wrap my head around, so I sat on the sidelines, but you know, I think for those neuro crypto who don't want to get caught up in the wave of FOMO, I think this is a good place to be to figure out where you can invest again, not financial advice, but where you can make strategic bets that hopefully do well. I'm not saying like 6% returns a year, like I still think we're double digits, if not doubling, of Bitcoin and Ethereum and some other ones, but we're you know there's certainly, if you go out on that risk curve, there are hundreds to thousands of percent gains. But if you're not in those inner rings, like you know, if you, if you don't get in and out at the exact right time, then you know if, if, if you don't know who's it like it's probably you.

Speaker 1: 7:14

You know, like you're probably the mark I remember you know in. It must have been in March I was getting FOMO'd into Pepe coin and I went to the site to like register to do it and I don't think I was home or something kept me from doing it and that was just a oh man, I should have just scooped up a little bit of that. That went crazy. And then and then I made for everybody. Then I made the cardinal sin of once it was through the moon being like, well, it'll probably go higher, I wouldn't mind getting in a little bit, and you know so. I have a. I have a small little bag of that. That's never gone back up to what it was. We'll see where it ends up.

Speaker 2: 7:55

Yeah, I bought one meme crime. I'm not even going to say the name of it because it's not worth repeating, but it it was up, I'm sure the people who Ponzi didn't do existence all pulled the rug right after and it went way down and I didn't sell it because I it went down. So far I'm not even sure what wallets it's in because it's not show, it's not registering as even like a penny. So you know, maybe in the long run it'll come back, but I highly doubt it. It wasn't an anger coin.

Speaker 1: 8:26

Yeah, that's something we can get into a little bit later, or another show even, but yet I would love to have a better understanding of the coordination, of you know kind of the launch and the strategy of these different ones when they go there's there's obviously formulas and you know there's different ones that are doing different formulas and everything. But there's coordination at some level that you know it is. You are missing out if you don't really know about it and if you're not kind of on the inside as you're saying, how are you going to time what you're doing? So I think that I think that talking it out, even right there, gets me back to my fundamental thesis of just look at the ones that you understand. You know what's that old thing like? Don't invest in something you can't explain. You don't understand.

Speaker 2: 9:10

Yeah, I'm pretty good at explaining things in very simplistic terms. And, yeah, there are certain things like already and I'm sure if I deep dove I would have a much better explanation but to me right now, the way Bitcoin is set up, those BRC 20 tokens, it's, it's not quite how the Ethereum token, I mean tokenomics system works, so I just I kind of just backed off from it. Again, I'm I'm I'm definitely jealous but I'm happy for all the people who made just a bolt load on already token and it just keeps going up. But I guess, for me, again, the underlying base currencies of ecosystems being Bitcoin on the Bitcoin side, obviously, and then Ethereum on the Ethereum blockchain side, to me, and you know, staking Ethereum, embedding on the network and the network fees and the congestion of the network and you know, validating that network, to me feels like the best play.

Speaker 2: 10:15

But you know, it's, it's even I want to sometimes get in on some of these and jump in and jump out. But you almost want to know, follow likes the people you know are in this supposed ring and follow these influencers, just to like, line up, like Okay, so they're starting to talk about this, but I've blocked, you know, like I said, prune the garden. I've blocked so many of them, even people who some people kind of revere, like no, I'm blocking them because I just I don't see value in the information that they're giving, because I'd rather just do the research myself.

Speaker 1: 10:54

Well, it comes down to narratives, right, and what narratives you're getting supported. And when you start seeing what's, you know, you start hearing things or seeing things multiple times. Then they take on their own life. And I was thinking about this one a little bit. Like you be, you couldn't possibly say that you haven't heard.

Speaker 1: 11:13

You know, like bullish Solana, overall narratives and you know, and people saying, oh, solana's pumped so much, you know. And then you look at it and then you know ETH, you know ETH. People are sitting there like, well, when's our time? You know, da, da, da. But I don't even know if you really looked at it. So, like Solana is at like 60 bucks, let's say, and it's all time high. It was like 275.

Speaker 1: 11:37

So it went down so bad because it was tied to so much of like the FTX and you know all that sort of thought around there. So there was more of an existential question of like, will Solana survive as a chain? So for it to go from I don't know what the low was maybe you know in the teens or something like that for it to go from there up to 60, bravo, like that's great. You know that's a big up in a in a big run. But you look at Ethereum as well. You know that's.

Speaker 1: 12:05

You know that was what do you say? All time high right around 5,000, maybe 4800. And now it's at half of that. So that's recovered. You know almost, as I guess more if you do the math. Yet my narrative that I see is like Solana is the big pump and oh my God, you can't believe it's looting. And it's like is it really and I think that's the question that we both have to in everybody listening kind of look at all the stories is is it really? You know and look at, are you just getting pump headlines and you know what's the purpose of that, as opposed to what's really happening from you know, straight up numbers, basis.

Speaker 2: 12:42

Yeah, I mean Solana all summer hovered in the low 20s and even in October it was 1920. And you know it's shot up to. I think we're at 60 or just above 60 now. So you know, at three X in a month. So people are going to get excited there. I guess what I would say with Solana.

Speaker 2: 13:00

To me it feels like the there is an outsized voice on crypto Twitter, especially for the Solana ecosystem. And you know, I know I've heard about mad lads and I think that you know the NFTs on Solana, like every. You know the okay bears were the old ones, I think D gods used to be on there and so they've had different like big NFT collections that have done really well and have kind of pumped hard. But you know, it feels to me like the crypto Twitter voices are outsized compared to the chain usage. So hats off to it. Three Xing and you know, and in a multi chain world isn't necessarily a bad world. But you know, having been around since 2015 and Ethereum since whatever 2017 or something or 2016, maybe, if I was lucky to me, like I know, I can have biases of possibly being a Bitcoin to an ETH maxi, but every time I look to buy Solana. I'm just like, yeah, I, you know, I don't see. I see, all I see is a lot of people kind of leaving that ecosystem. I mean, lido left Solana for staking and you know I'm sure the vote had its reasons, but to me and you know I'm not a big D gods fan but they left Solana, so to me that that's not necessarily a recipe for success. And not even be able to hold your kind of core assets, that that were considered the most valuable. I'm sure they got stuff going on, but it just seems like the voice and crypto Twitter is way bigger than Solana. So, you know, if people want to FOMO in now, it's already three X in a month, month and a half.

Speaker 2: 14:57

I'm not going to, but I'm just not. I'm just not. I'm not there yet. I need to understand and see a reason and a huge use case for why Solana is better. And all the arguments I will scroll on Twitter. You know when Ryan Sean Adams gets just you know they they probably almost ratio him with Solana quotes and I read them. I read a lot of them because I'm trying to find the strongest argument on the Solana side I can, but I'm still not convinced, personally, that. That's a token that I'd want to own, and I feel like a lot of it started with VCs. They still hold a lot of it. It's hard to become a validator because you need a fiber optic network, which is getting more common but still not fully there, and you need very fast hardware. So it it it if it can't be open to everyone and have a full node for just absolutely anyone who wants it, like Ethereum. To me, the trade off for decentralization isn't quite there.

Speaker 1: 16:01

That's that's well put and that's a good example of, you know, doing the layered thinking and analysis as opposed to going off of. You know the, the pumpers, and you know I was, as I say, I was just looking at it and I'm like, yeah, that's great that it went up, you know three times. But aren't we shooting for all-time highs on all this? And isn't that kind of where things, where people want things to head, and there's still a long road to go to get up to that point? And I'm not negative on it, I'm just saying with, with the proliferation, if I said that word correctly it's like. It's like it solved everything. And you know, I don't know, sometimes you got to, you got to look through the lens and and get a read on that, what was?

Speaker 2: 16:39

and I'm the first, and I'm the first to admit and I know you are too that I could be wrong you know, I could be wrong and if I am I, I the only person I'd be bummed at is myself for maybe not fully understanding the thesis. But, like I said, I keep reading tweets and and I want that, I'm hoping for that aha moment and, you know, maybe for me it just I won't get it. But for now it's just, it's just not there.

Speaker 1: 17:04

Yeah, and you know you have everyone's got every right to support what they'd like to support, and that's the whole part of it right. So this was kind of interesting. You, you brought this up to me and I'd love to kind of talk and learn a little bit more about this Qatar situation, looking toward looking at a potential purchase or an allocation of Bitcoin, and what that's all about.

Speaker 2: 17:27

Yeah. So Qatar, obviously a very oil rich, very oil rich country. There is rumors these are alleged that they wanted to spend $500 billion with a B dollars, on Bitcoin. So to me, the silliest thing I think you could possibly do is be like, look, we have a thesis and we're gonna like, hey, everybody, look what we're about to buy. I mean that would be more than Michael Saylor has. That would be more than any individual sovereign or person or company like MicroStatogy, microstat crescendo. Here's the deal, though, like in maybe Bitcoin has gone up from that.

Speaker 2: 18:11

I think everything's now based on the big whales, the institutions, the sovereigns and the ETFs. I mean, every part of the beginning of this bull run is based on those wealth ETFs getting approved by the SEC. The problem is, if you're trying to buy $500 billion in Bitcoin, what's the market cap right now? I think it's 861 billion, so you're buying two thirds, or maybe a little less than two thirds 60, whatever percent of the entire Bitcoin supply. Well, that's impossible because there are a lot of people who, hell or high water, are not selling their Bitcoin. In fact, the exchanges right now have 8.8 percent of the Bitcoin for sale. That's $76 billion in Bitcoin. That's actually even gettable on the exchanges.

Speaker 1: 19:08

So less than 20 percent of what they've allocated towards is even available to purchase on exchanges.

Speaker 2: 19:18

Yeah, I don't even think. If you timed it with all the exchanges, I'd be curious if you could make a billion dollar purchase. It probably wouldn't even be possible. I mean, every exchange has so many limits for individuals. I'm sure institutions, through some of these, can get better access. I think what a lot of people do is they try and buy their Bitcoin directly off the miners, because then you're not necessarily triggering those massive squeezes. If these ETFs get approved and the demands is big even remotely as big as we think it could be, I don't even see Institutions are just going to try and gobble up every bit of Bitcoin that they possibly can. Then ETH we always talk about this. I'm fine with ETH. It's gone to what? $2,200? It's gone up. But a lot of people are like why is ETH not having it stay?

Speaker 1: 20:22

I said lagging yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:24

ETH feels like it's drafting to me. Eth will have its time With the SEC. They may say XRP won their law cases to say they're not a security Bitcoin. It sounds like the SEC could walk that back, but they've pretty much said okay, bitcoin's not a security. I think secretly, gary Gensler, the human being, actually likes Bitcoin, eth. They might be like oh, you're not getting the club yet, buddy, you may be a security, I don't know, but you got to figure with all the utility on ETH. They're next for the wave. Let's let everyone else have their day. If we're smart, we dollar cost average into Bitcoin right now, and maybe even smarter because there's more upside Possibly we dollar cost average in ETH.

Speaker 2: 21:10

Remember, bitcoin might have such a squeeze that a lot of folks can't even get into Bitcoin. Where do you think they're going to look? Second, I am so curious to see with $76 billion to you and me and to retail folks, that's a lot of money, all of us together, even the rich folks. We could probably put a dent with several million, but 76 billion's a lot. But to sovereigns and BlackRock, who manages $1.5 or $6 trillion whatever that crazy number is how could you possibly get all that you want, and then some to even have enough for the ETFs. Because remember, someone goes into the ETF for BlackRock and you go buy it on the market. At some point that price to me seems like it would squeeze up. Now, maybe over time it finds its place, but at some point the demand seems to me it's going to outstrip supply insanely.

Speaker 1: 22:16

I don't know there's so much to talk about with that. There's a million different subcontacts there. You're looking at something. Obviously, what's the number one beauty of Bitcoin is the fixed amount. You have X amount that's available and the 21 million. Then you have a happening event coming up in 98 or so.

Speaker 2: 22:41

Right In 20,000 blocks. It's like I think it's 20,000 blocks as of this morning.

Speaker 1: 22:46

You have that going on. Then, as Chicago has espoused multiple times throughout the program, you have a deflationary asset in terms of Ether. Looking at that, it's like how could you not be a little bit bullish?

Speaker 2: 23:03

On Ether the whole thing.

Speaker 1: 23:06

Both, really. Then I would go further to say that this future world, you know, with this adoption, it's not going to be just, you know, two chains or whatever it is. And we have to get past the tribalism side of it and just look at the, you know, the tide rising, all ships right Like. So if Solana went out of business and tank, that wouldn't be good for the whole ecosystem. So you know, these people that are just rooting for their home team, it's like root for the, root for the sport, for an analogy there, you know, root for the betterment of all of it. So it's, it's, it's remarkable.

Speaker 1: 23:42

But you're right, if you have these big institutions that are going to want to offer this to their customers and say it's, you know what are they going to do? Maybe a couple percent of family offices, you know, put this towards Bitcoin or put this towards that. That stacks and adds up really quickly. And there's a line, there's a line at the checkout counter of, hey, is this still on the shelf? Is it available? So that's why, you know, like, that's why everyone's so excited to get out.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Right, and that's just all the local money managers. But to me, even putting those folks aside, because you know there's a demand on their side to be able to get in, but to me, the institutions with an ETF like if someone enters your ETF, you have to buy it then and there. So the demand is telling you in all these retirement accounts and all these just brokerage accounts, like we want this and you buy it at that time, at the point where you're going to get in, and that's the price it is, and that's the price they get in on. And you know you've got your little, your little teeny ETF management fee and you're managing, hopefully, billions and billions and billions. So that adds up. You know the little pennies add up very quickly. But I it's funny Again, not financial advice and we have disclaimers at the end of the show but I, even in the early days, when Bitcoin was at 200, 250 or whatever, and even in COVID, there was a time where it did dip below 5000, I think in March of 20, for like a day or maybe even a half a day, and I grabbed a couple.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Then I was like, okay, we don't know what's going on with this COVID thing, but Bitcoin under $5,000. I'm sorry, like I have to buy some, like it just seems insane. I may be and there might be a blind spot, but I'm more bullish now than I have been in either of those two other instances and that's saying something. And that's because if you just take the price away for a second, what do we have? $43, $44 or whatever. If you take the price away for a second and you just look at possible future demand and then you look at the supply of only $76 billion of Bitcoin out there and Qatar saying they want $500 billion, and that's just one sovereign of hundreds of countries who could potentially buy into Bitcoin and all the financial institutions Like. To me it's like trying to get your entire village to run. Everyone jumps in the telephone booth at the same time Like it's impossible, like it's a comical thing, like clowns in a car, but it's not possible.

Speaker 1: 26:24

No, and that's the central story. And that's when we look at all the headlines right now, it feels as if we're all just slightly in a waiting room to see the impact of when and if this gets approved, and it's kind of one of those. It's positioned as one of those seminal moments in the whole lifespan of the space. It's going to be like do you remember when this happened? Because things should fundamentally change. We could be wrong, Maybe it won't change that much, but the math doesn't really add up to it not being a significant event.

Speaker 2: 27:00

Yeah, 100% agree. And just a last note you made a really good point on Ethereum and, and you know when I asked you, we're like well, both Bitcoin and Ethereum. But if you just look at Ethereum, it is, whereas Bitcoin is capped, obviously, ultimately at 21 million, we've got the happening coming in three or four months, so half the rewards get out there and less supply of Bitcoin gets out there. Thus, even more of a squeeze. Ethereum is actually deflationary.

Speaker 2: 27:25

Ethereum supply is going down and remember, we are just at the start of this next bull market. The more Ethereum gets used, the more the ETH supply goes down, because every transaction that happens, more ETH gets burned. Some ETH goes to the stakers for validating the network and some ETH just simply gets burned with the transaction. So since 447 days ago, it seems crazy, but since the ETH merge over a year ago, the ETH supply has gone down only 0.2%, but remember, it has gone down and to me that's that's huge. Only validators are actually getting some ETH from these transactions and because the other ETH is burned, like when a supply is going down and it's deflationary, like and it's got a chain that's being used a lot for DeFi and NFTs and all these different tokens that we've talked about over the different shows like.

Speaker 2: 28:30

To me, that's a pretty healthy blockchain ecosystem and a lot of people complain Ethereum fees on the main chain are high and that's why L2s are coming out, and I would agree. But that's the value of the Ethereum blockchain. People wouldn't use it at these higher gas fees if it wasn't something that they wanted to do. Now, maybe, down the road, more institutions are just on the main chain, or big whales, and everything goes to the L2s. That's TBD. But that's a fine problem too, because the security still rolls down to the base layer, which is Ethereum, and the base layer, I guess, like you keep talking about, thesis is and you're right, but the base layer is where I want to be. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:14

And one point on that that's interesting is it's not really being used right now. You know what I mean. And we haven't had that breakout application where, oh my God, now everyone's on this and everyone's using it and it gets passes. We're still in a pretty shallow pond in terms of usage and what's going on. And you got to start thinking about when people are using the Ethereum network and they don't even know they are, because it's behind and it's baked in and that's what's going on. So you know, you saw, you know, I know in your past, you saw, you know kind of the culture change and the game change with you know, the iPhone apps when those came into play. We're kind of we haven't even had that sort of utilization of this technology yet from a mass perspective. So, on top of the ability for you know, institutions and other people to purchase and acquire, the usage case of it is just as fascinating. It's like once this stuff starts being used, wow.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Yeah, good point. And I think with the layer twos, like the key is it will be more and more invisible, like right now to move your ETH to a layer two and then to go in that native token. Like there's a lot of kind of weird decisions to be made and you know, part of me sometimes gets down on it and I'm like how do you even get the UI to be better here? And then the cooler heads. I guess multiple thoughts in my own head prevail that you don't even see it Like somewhat like there's a game that comes out and it's straight on immutable X or one of these layer twos and it's completely seamless. You don't even have to worry about it. Now, if you have to transfer some of your proceeds or NFTs, if it's possible to transfer to the base ETH chain if that even makes sense fine. Otherwise, like it's an ecosystem that's secured by Ethereum but it basically works in its own right and to the end user. It should just be seamless.

Speaker 1: 31:18

But right now, like it's bulky, like so if I'm on MetaMask or something and I want to do something on optimism versus ETH, you know you still have to get ETH over there. And then it's like, well then, I still have some over there when I'm done doing what I'm doing. So, yeah, it's not at the flow point yet, but it should be coming really soon.

Speaker 2: 31:38

Yeah, and I think part of that too is because a lot of people have wanted to kind of like try and game air drops, like is it going to come out their air drop, and I think the rumors are yes on that. So people are moving around and kind of trying to learn the system. But that's almost like banking maneuvers and more like using different, you know, swapping the chains and stuff like that. Or is I think the big use cases, especially on layer twos and possibly eventually layer threes, will be direct feed into this, where it's very seamless for you. Like you know, if you're in a video game and you see your little coin purse in your head in the upper right corner, then it is what it is, you know, and if you need to access it and move stuff around, that you is obviously going to get better. But that's when you would probably run into that stuff. But I suspect a lot of people aren't even going to bother there.

Speaker 1: 32:36

That kind of kind of segs into one of the other stories that was, you know, getting a lot of airspace this week, which was, you know, this portal coin.

Speaker 1: 32:47

And you know how everything's how that kind of just took over the consciousness of you know, at least my time one, and a lot of people was like all out of nowhere, all of a sudden, you know, if you could pay to have I always thought it would be cool, you know, like if you could invest in what words going to be used the most that next week or that next year, like I didn't know, portal was going to, you know, have the presence that it took on, and I know that the you know it put me to the point of like trying to figure out, okay, what's the actual product and what are they trying to do. And it sounds like it's something, you know, tied to kind of the interoperability of a coin within gaming systems and stuff like that. So that's that, you know, that's all kind of built out and coming, so it just feels like it's all just on the precipice of just kind of hit and go and happening.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, if you're not on crypto, if you're on crypto Twitter and you didn't see portal coin, I God bless you because I I couldn't, I couldn't escape it. I blocked people, muted them. People I liked I temporarily muted, I like I didn't. I thought portal had some game element to it. Right now it's purely engagement farming, which I don't love. That Obviously it's a super aggressive play on portal and the future portal coins part to be the main token to have games sign up to. You know, accrue value, because somebody eventually obviously is going to get video games right. And I think in our pre-show you were telling me aren't there like three billion gamers out of seven or eight billion people? I mean, just the amount of gamers worldwide is insane. So you know. But obviously we grew up gamers too in the first gen of gaming. You know where there was a lot of platformers and a lot of joysticks.

Speaker 2: 34:42

A lot of joysticks, yeah, good point. Yeah, with very few buttons. But you know, someone or a couple of groups are going to win this game and it's going to be extremely lucrative because if you can have a token that has utility to people and it's not just kind of a self perpetuating Ponzi where you have to keep farming to get more tokens and then staking to get 10% growth, well, that 10% appears out of nowhere because it's based. You know, it's not like it has an underlying gold as its asset or or even the US dollar, bitcoin. They're just, they come out of thin air.

Speaker 2: 35:22

But again, something at some point has to succeed and some might succeed and burn out, like my space did before Facebook came and kind of won that first generation social media war, you know. But I, I don't want to see any more portal coin right now and maybe I'm walking away from free money later. But you know what did they say? The board member from Rockstar Games, grand Theft Auto just joined the board. Obviously, that was meant to create even more FOMO and probably even more farming, just at the right time. I don't think Rockstar for Grand Theft Auto has said that they're using portal. Yeah, have a.

Speaker 1: 36:11

No, I don't think that's been. But you know, as we talked about the orchestration before, you know, and the coordination of things, it's like it's certainly not a coincidence that this news is kind of breaking the day after the GTA. You know, six preview leaked and you know it's out there. So that's what I'm saying, like I don't know where and I don't. I'm not a conspiracy guy, but I don't know who's. You know timing these and pushing the buttons and getting it going.

Speaker 1: 36:38

But it's just, it's fascinating to really just watch and and you know I'm, I'm, you know we sit there sometimes and we're like I don't know, does it feel icky? Is this, you know? Are we out of the loop or what's going on? It's interesting, you know. So today, when they announced today that Jamie King, one of the original founders of Grant Grand Theft Auto, made you know if Rockstar Games is joining portal, it's worth reading up on and paying some attention to and looking at it. I don't know, like with the portal on Twitter and everything that's going on and I said the portal, so we'll see how that sounds. But are they? Are they basically gamifying farming right now in your, you know, you're getting different levels and kind of unlocks of your access potentially to the airdrop, based on you know what you're doing Like, so they're kind of using it that way.

Speaker 2: 37:27

It's all for the airdrop, so I don't even think you can grab the portal token yet. Yeah, again, it's that engagement farming, you know, because that that is getting. I love scrolling crypto here. Obviously it's a love hate, like most of us, but if you find a good, well written, thoughtful post, a lot of times you'll get good, well written, thoughtful replies in there. And sometimes, like I'm always looking for unique perspective to challenge my thinking on things. And when portal coin just like blasts the mind space, be like F you no thanks. Like it to me. To me it's too strong of a like you're it feels too positive to me and I get that they want to front run this whole thing, but like no thanks.

Speaker 1: 38:19

Yeah, it's pretty aggressive and it'll be interesting to see, because we've talked about it a few times and I've looked at it a little bit.

Speaker 1: 38:25

You know, like in the gaming worlds, you know like the development time is so intense and it takes so much time and manpower and and everything to be able to develop a game and build a game.

Speaker 1: 38:37

So the cycle of you know, I know that there's been some that people talk about like an alluvium that's on a mutable X. It'll be interesting to see if portal ends up being a competitor to that or you know who those players are. But we all know that the stakes are super high, to your point of the three billion users people are doing that. You know again, they're not going to necessarily know that. They're doing it on, you know, whatever platform or blockchain it is, and that's kind of the hope, right, like let's get some stuff out there and go. So, if you think about it, so far in this show there's a lot of things to be excited about that are just coming and we're kind of like sitting through the opening act. It feels like waiting for the, waiting for the headliner to come on and and the headliners when there's no question it's a bull market right, and it's like, ah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:24

That's. That almost feels like a frenzy to me, but I mean I I mean we're definitely at the beginning of a bull, whether this is like a fake pump or not, and it gets quiet again. I don't know. I don't think so, cause I think those ETFs aren't they slated for early January, when they get back in session at the beginning of the year. So I actually just looked at a poly market.

Speaker 2: 39:47

Oh yes, Pull this up today Like it's funny, cause I just have pages that I keep up for our show, just so we can reference things. But one of them in here helped me find it. Oh, bitcoin ETF approved by January 15th yes, 73%, no 27.

Speaker 1: 40:03

73.

Speaker 2: 40:04

So yeah, and again like this is people gambling on?

Speaker 2: 40:09

you know, Ethereum L twos to to make bets, but to me, like, the wisdom of the crowds doesn't know all, but it's a barometer, right.

Speaker 2: 40:19

So you know, maybe every this is either just insane, unbridled optimism or there's a lot of people who know something, cause we know conversations between the SEC and these different ETF groups are leaking out and they're getting very specific on types of of elements and and really specifics, and you wouldn't be doing all those specifics with meetings if it wasn't imminent to me. But again, you know there's, there's still the 27% who are knows, but yeah, I just love the site, just for for looking at the data and just being like, okay, that's what's common wisdom say and I'll take it with a grain of salt. But you know I'm guessing. Over time, you know these equalize out and obviously a new piece of news could shift that straight over to no, but for now, I think that shows you at least how optimistic people are heading out of 2023 into 2024 that those ETFs are going to set the table for. That, I think, is going to be the biggest bull run that crypto has seen.

Speaker 1: 41:28

Wow, yeah, you brought up a few L threes. Now I'm starting to think about that. I just saw on there there was, you know, something tied to a layer zero airdrop, like so one thing that is just kind of interesting. When I first came in, one one thing, one buzzword that you know I actually really liked, and I really liked the notion of it, and I just don't hear about it anymore is lore.

Speaker 1: 41:51

You know, like that was, everyone was talking about the lore of the different communities and what was going on and where's the lore? You know now it's airdrop and farming and you know kind of this, da, da da. So it's like I don't know, I just miss it, because that was that really kind of captivated me. And I know when I started, you know we reconnected and started talking about some of the projects. Like I know you were giddy about like hey, this is, there's some projects where it's like you're writing the story as it is and it can go here and can go there, and you know. So some of that I hope you know, I hope that gets its time back in the spotlight as we move forward in the future.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Yeah, the lore and the story behind. You know, obviously now we're more in the NFT world but yeah, I've always been a big fan of the story.

Speaker 2: 42:35

as underlining, you know, I've definitely switched my I guess, art, investment, the system more like I don't want any utility, because to me, utility at some point teams move on and people may get let down.

Speaker 2: 42:52

You know, like nuclear nerds, my daughter and I were into that for a long time and it was fun and I still wish them the best. But they had a whole lore bind up but then they air dropped you know there's that word again. But they are dropped like they like tripled the collection size overnight, didn't mint out and then everything just came crashing down. Not even to mention that the fact that all the the JPEGs are on Amazon web services, so I mean they're on centralized servers, so that's a mark against it. But you know you can change the NFTs and you can have them evolve over time as the story evolves, but I don't know. So so lore is possible, but I guess after getting burned with that one, no utility for me and just enjoyment of the art. And the more on chain I need, a less surface vectors for attack for me, the better in the art and FT space.

Speaker 1: 43:51

Yeah, it's been an interesting transition and evolution, especially, you know, learning about the ordinals and how that all came about. And you know it did kind of change the value structure and how people look at you know what something is and how permanent and valuable it is Right.

Speaker 2: 44:08

Yeah, so again, a lot out there. Our goal is to try and give it to everyone out there straight. We don't have sponsors yet. We're not. You know, we're not at the mercy of trying to appease different people, we're just trying to call it how it is. You know I've been in crypto for eight or nine years now and and disco's been in it for at least two or three, and you know we have two different perspectives from two different kind of entry points. And you know, for anyone new or learning or who's been in it a while, but gotta got burned in the last bull and they find themselves back again like, follow us, definitely subscribe and, and you know, hit the like button, leave a review, because you know we want to create an atmosphere for new collectors and new entrance to the crypto market who who get at least honest information.

Speaker 1: 45:08

Yeah, we'd like to. You know, we'd like to become a resource for, for folks. So we want it to be a two way, a two way conversation, and if you as a listener, you know, have something that you gosh I'd like to learn a little bit more about or I'd like to hear more about it, you know we'd love to get you know kind of an assignment or two to develop some, some content around that. So we're always looking to be responsive and and try to provide tools and and ultimately be a resource where people can turn and kind of learn more about things that they've heard about. You know, kind of in the, in the, in the atmosphere out there.

Speaker 2: 45:41

Yep, cool. So before we wrap it up, we'd like to just share anything that happened and past show story we've covered, because we want this thread to always be weaving in and out disco. Anything of note to share along those lines?

Speaker 1: 46:00

I know we did. I really enjoyed it and we've had really good feedback on the music show that we did and you know it's it's kind of callous is kind of the news that that I would bring back up, which was yesterday Spotify cut another 17% of their workforce. And the email or the memo from Daniel Elk and I don't know if anyone else watched that Spotify little mini series, but I sure did kind of enjoyed it. I didn't know the whole story of it but I enjoyed it but it just shows how number centric they are because they cut the cut 17%, which is like 1500 people just got, you know, knocked out right before the holidays. And then you know what, the stock went up 7%. So you know it's like Merry Christmas, yeah, merry Christmas, our stocks up, you're out.

Speaker 1: 46:51

So I don't know, I don't really have a big thing to say, but it just it was kind of disheartening and it makes me more and more excited about, you know, a new shot, so to speak, of having some new players and new ways to look at things when we get into, you know, more of the on chain, you know, next generation of music.

Speaker 1: 47:08

I feel like Spotify has kind of had its run and I'm ready for the next gen to come in and have new ways to experience music and kind of cut out some of the middlemen. So that was one thing that I saw. Oh, the other thing I could bring up really quick is we did a show where we were talking last week about you know how my mom has FOMO about crypto and how she was seeing things. Well, let's just say that the person who was doing it is continuing to bang it out of the park, because yesterday she was talking about how she helped someone pay off 7 or 427,000 in just two months of trading Bitcoin. Again, I don't know how that's possible. I don't know what I'm missing, but the hits keep coming over there.

Speaker 2: 47:51

Yeah, for those listeners who haven't heard last week's show OK X, who is not really sanctioned to even be an exchange in America, has all these APIs and all these kind of pyramid-y feeling, allegedly trading, where you know you sign up and then you try and get people buying Bitcoin or Ethereum through you and under you through these APIs. So you would think of you as setting up your own little white label shop and then you know, just like Mary Kay Cosmetics or Tupperware or whatever other MLM marketing type pyramid-y schemy thing, you get a cut based on everyone below you and Disco seen ton of posts on Facebook. So this new bull market is just, I guess what has amazed us so we talked about last week is the speed at which all these different old coins that you thought were dead and stuff like this, like MLM stuff just coming out of the woodworks to try and separate you from money and fomo in to buying into something through someone else so they're making money off you. It just it feels scammy and gross.

Speaker 1: 49:18

Yeah, it all kind of feels farmy right, like it's kind of that. That feels, you know, it's kind of in the same vein of, you know, developing these narratives and getting people, you know, feeling like they need to get involved or they're missing out or they need to hear it and taking the share of voice and you know, kind of it's all kind of about manipulating the share of voice when you really think about it. So those, those are a couple of things that that came up there's. We don't need to go into depth, but you know, the AI side of things is just continuing to provide a ton of developments and interests. I know that they announced a new AI tech alliance today, I think, which is like oh, I just saw that yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:55

It's like meta and IBM. And again, why do it's the old players you hear? You know we're still here in IBM and you know all this and it's just like the alliance yeah, they're like hey tech alliance.

Speaker 2: 50:07

to me, that says a lobby for us to protect you citizens from yourselves.

Speaker 1: 50:15

You're welcome. Yeah, from progression and AKA, keeping the status quo and the cash flows going. So yeah, saw some more of that.

Speaker 2: 50:23

Well, you know, we looked into, remember, we talked to Dr G and you know who's been in the AI space for 10 years before it was even called AI and it was called more neural networks and machine learning and all that stuff, and you know he gave us some great names of what was it? Olama and a couple where basically citizens and individuals can run AI on their own computers, and that is a big push and getting better and, believe it or not, meta is actually kind of a part of pushing that. So the fact that they're in this alliance, to me just it just screams like let's make sure the open source version of AI and VR, let's throw that in there too Like let's

Speaker 2: 51:06

make sure we have choices, so not everything is our eyeballs getting scanned so they can serve us more advertising and, quite frankly, surveil us and keep tabs on everybody at every given moment, including our children. You know, like we're old, like you're surveilling me like have fun, like watching me watch gun smoke and old TV shows. But you know, like the younger generations, like I think the older generation has some duty to make sure that there that balance of personal privacy and security where your whole life to a government is not an open book. You know a lot of biting citizen. You know pay your taxes, don't be dumb, do all that stuff. But you know we all deserve freedom to transact, freedom of speech and and to the freedom to choose what we make public and private.

Speaker 1: 52:08

Yeah, I think that I think open source is probably the biggest theme and the biggest battle right now that we all should be, you know, paying keen attention to, because, especially with the developments and AI and, you know, with crypto and everything, but specifically with AI, there's really nothing that's really that much more important than making sure that there's a handling that goes in the right direction. And, you know there is really going to be a battle between, you know, centralization and open source, and it's just something that I wish more people were kind of paying attention to, because it's happening right now, like the rules are getting written, and it's going to impact everything, you know, everyone's day to day in quite a few ways.

Speaker 2: 52:52

Well said, well said. Well, let's transition to the final piece of this show. We always like to finish the show with something positive. Just go to do something to share on that front.

Speaker 1: 53:06

Indeed, I do, and it may be a little out of character for me to refer to Bowie, but Bowie is a new addition to my family and Bowie is a English bulldog that we do a lot of, a English bulldog that we were lucky enough to acquire or collect or trying to refer to like an NFT on that, but we were lucky enough to bring him into our life 10 months ago and I was just reflecting on it.

Speaker 1: 53:33

One of the things that's fun about doing this show is we do have these elements where we want to talk about something good and something you know that's gratifying and that we're grateful for and that does kind of help to kind of shift your perspective a little bit, to find the good stuff in the day to day.

Speaker 1: 53:48

And I'll just say that this little guy has worked wonders in terms of managing the tone of my teenage household these days and having just something that represents nothing but wanting to be in the gang and wanting to hang out and wanting to you know, give you nothing but love has really been a jolt of positivity that I look back and I'm like I just couldn't imagine living my life without having, you know, kind of this. You know the unconditional support and love of somebody like this and being able to, kind of you know, watch them develop and be a part of it. So I just I guess I'm banging the drum on behalf of you know, trying to incorporate the love from pets into your life and just giving a little shout out to the benefits and values that they bring.

Speaker 2: 54:35

Yep Can confirm, bowie is a extremely handsome dog and it's always nice. I came home late Monday night and you know everybody was either on homework or maybe a little media after they were done with their homework and doing their stuff. But the dog always comes to the door wagging its tail, so excited to see and you know you make time to pet it and it's just that. Welcome home is so nice. In fact, he's crawling under to nap under my desk as we speak. So we'll show Nigel in a future episode, but can confirm pets are the real deal.

Speaker 2: 55:15

Well, thank you everybody for coming. Before we do our disclaimers, just want to thank you. Please subscribe at the like button and, you know, tell your friends about it. Like I said, we're trying to get the most honest take we can for this space, which we feel is very lacking. I feel like everyone has an agenda here, but you know we do this because we love it and you know we love cryptocurrency and we're interested in AI. But we want to make sure you know that the people can have a strong say in this and have the freedom to use them without feeling like they're being watched. So may I have Stu please?

Speaker 1: 55:56

Yeah, comment or share ideas or anything. We're very receptive and we believe that feedback's a gift as well. So, you know, let us know what you're digging, or if there's something that you think we could improve, we're all ears With. That being said, this show is for purely entertainment purposes. Nothing mentioned is to be considered or construed as financial advice. Always do your own research and try to look at everything through a critical lens and make sure that you're getting to the meat of the issue, as opposed to the hype.

Speaker 2: 56:28

Yep, for sure, Well thanks everybody Take care.